Anika Wells MP on 4BC with Scott Emerson

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
4BC DRIVE WITH SCOTT EMERSON
FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 11, 2022

SUBJECTS: Religious Discrimination Bill, Foreign interference, Should politicians ever sing.

SCOTT EMERSON, HOST: Time for our version of Question Time here on Drive with Anika Wells and Julian Simmonds. Now we’re going to start off with Anika today. First up Anika, the Religious Discrimination Bill. It passed through the Lower House but only after five MPs from the Coalition crossed the floor and voted with Labor and the crossbenchers. But the government wasn't happy about that. Looks like the bill is on ice. Do you think we'll actually be debating it before the election?

ANIKA WELLS, MEMBER FOR LILLEY: No, I don’t reckon we will, Scott. Because this is the Prime Minister's pet bill and he couldn't get the support in the House or outside the House to get it through. I think not since the 1980s have five government members crossed the floor of the House on a bill. So it’s a pretty significant and shambolic development for his government.

EMERSON: Julian Simmonds, look, the bill was going to be examined by a Senate inquiry. But everyone’s just saying, look, it's not going to pass before the election sometime in May.

JULIAN SIMMONDS, MEMBER FOR RYAN: Well, I think that's the reality of it. I'm still catching up on a bit of sleep, I have to say, from that late-night sitting. But that’s the reality of it, unless the numbers change. It's a good Bill. You know, we have legislated protections for people being discriminated on the basis of gender or sex or race. But we don’t when it comes to faith, which is so central in people's lives. So we were very keen to get it over the line and get it supported. But after Labor managed to get theirs, you know, all thought out and, and an amendment up at 3am. We couldn’t support it after that.

EMERSON: Yeah, but when you're talking about those amendments, isn't the crucial point for the Coalition that five of your colleagues crossed the floor? As Anika said, that hasn't happened since the 1980s?

SIMMONDS: Well, you’ve got to ask them why they did what they did. But I just don't think, I think…Labor’s amendment at 3am in the morning was clearly full of unintended consequences. And all we were trying to do is make sure that, if we were going to make a change like the one Labor was suggesting that we could get the Law Reform Commission to look at well, what does it mean? And we could talk to stakeholders. This is how Labor does things. This was an amendment they thought up in the last couple of days. They make policy on the fly. They have no care for the unintended consequences they cause. They just want to play politics against the Prime Minister.

EMERSON: Well Anika, were there unintended consequences from that amendment?

WELLS: Let’s just a few facts straight here, Scott and Julian. Labor didn't even get a copy of the government's redrafted, redrafted, redrafted, redrafted, redrafted bill until Tuesday morning. And we were not provided with copy of their own amendments until 20 hours before he started putting them to a vote. So yes, the government wouldn't have had a lot of notice for our amendments. We did signal them in December. But if you're going to talk about…Julian to use your own words of shambolic and disorganised. It's the government that did those things, and the rest of us were trying to respond and improve it as best we can.

EMERSON: The bill is not going to go anywhere now. Is that a failure of both sides of politics, Anika? The fact that a bill that many, many MPs thought was important in parts, for a variety of reasons, that well, is on ice. And as Julian just said, it's unlikely now to be debated before the election.

WELLS: Yeah, I think that's right, Scott. But good legislation does not divide our community. And protections for people of faith have existed in different state legislatures and other countries for decades. You would know, that we've had them in here in Queensland since 1991, when they were brought in by Labor Premier Wayne Goss. But those legislatures have put those bills through without the kind of rancour and division and nastiness that we have seen under Scott Morrison's leadership in public debate. So I just think it's on the Prime Minister on this one. It was his pet bill. And if he wanted support for it, he needed to work harder and better.

SIMMONDS: I think there's a different lesson Scott, because both sides of politics supported this bill. But it was only not supported at the end because Labour put in an amendment that had nothing to do with the bill. And was all about playing politics with the Prime Minister. So the message to Australians - if they want to see this legislation pass then vote for the Coalition at the next election. Give us more numbers in the Chamber and in the Senate, so that we can pass this without having to resort to Labor’s silly games.

WELLS: I have to pick you up there Julian. It was Rebecca Sharkey, the independent crossbencher’s amendment, which is the one that got up that you're talking about, not Labor’s amendment.

SIMMONDS: Well it was an exact copy of Mark Dreyfus’s amendment. So sorry you’re playing semantics again, the way Labor likes to do? It was word for word what Labor was proposing in their amendment.

WELLS: And it got enough support in the House that it got through. Unlike yours. Unlike your bill.

EMERSON: Alright, then we'll move on to another topic here. I'm talking to Labor's Member for Lilley, Anika Wells and the LNP Member for Ryan, Julian Simmonds. Anika, we did see Mike Burgess, the head of ASIO come out today and well last night or the night before last, sorry now. And talk about well, a threat to elections from a foreign power. And then what's been reported today is that maybe that is a Chinese government has been behind that. This is about New South Wales federal MPs. I know this has got…I want to stress that, it's about New South Wales federal MPs and, and or federal pre-selections for Labor candidates down there. I'm gonna ask both of you about this. Are you confident, first off with you, Anika, that we haven't seen those kinds of plotting in pre-selections here in Queensland for the ALP.

WELLS: Absolutely, because it's a nonsense claim and a conflation by the government, of comments made by Mr. Burgess about Russian influence on elections, not Chinese. It’s the conflation of two different stories. And Labor has been the one arguing, pressuring the government to bolster resourcing for these kinds of protections against foreign influences ahead of the election.

EMERSON: Sorry Anika…my understanding is…I know there was a story on the ABC last night talking about the Russians. But I understand that both Anthony Albanese and Scott Morrison have been briefed on this. And it’s been made very clear, there's a number of reports this afternoon about this. That it is Chinese, a Chinese government influence on New South Wales pre-selections for Labor. That seems to be the case. What I'm asking is your side, in terms of Queensland ALP pre-selections, are you confident there hasn't been any kind of interference along those lines?

WELLS: Well, so much as I'm in a position to know I am. I am in a position to know that things are going pretty bad for the government when they're pulling out the old reds-under-the-bed scare tactics. Which was what we were seeing from Peter Dutton and Scott Morrison in Question Time all week. These kinds of strategic leaks designed to change the story from their loss of control of the Parliament this week. It's disappointing, but like I was saying, Labor has been pushing for critical infrastructure, like elections, to receive more support and more scrutiny and we haven't seen the Morrison government do that. That’d be a good start.

EMERSON: Julian Simmonds, yourself? Obviously your pre-selections have also been occurring. Are you confident there hasn't been any efforts to interfere with them from foreign powers?

SIMMONDS: Well, look I don’t think they’d try it with the Coalition. They know we're tough on this stuff. You know, whereas Anthony Albanese’s faction within the ALP was known as the Bolsheviks. I mean, you know we’re not making this stuff up. This is what Anthony Albanese called himself. I mean, he's never held an economic portfolio. He's never held a national security portfolio. And while he was in the Rudd Government, when hundreds of people were dying at sea, because they let the border controls go, he was in tears saying he could never turn back a boat. So you know, he can't deal with tough border security, either. So I have to say too, I think Anika’s not up on the latest story. Like on  The Australian, it actually says it's ALP sources confirmed it was New South Wales ALP pre-selections that were being targeted by China.

EMERSON: Well, that is the latest story. It seemed to change from last night. But there was the speculation on the ABC. And Anika is quite right. There was speculation last night on the ABC it was Russian so I'll give her …

SIMMONDS: When ALP sources are confirming it for themselves it was within their own party, you can take it as read.

EMERSON: Alright. Do you think…how much Anika…these claims, you’re seeing them from Peter Dutton. You’ve seen Julian Simmonds repeat them then. About the fact that well, that China would like to see Anthony Albanese up rather than keep Scott Morrison in the Lodge.

WELLS: I just think this is desperate nonsense from the government. But I will say, national security is too important for this kind of partisan game playing. So I won't take any more swings. I will just say that there are enduring differences that will need to be managed here. But we will always stand up for our interests. And I would say, in government, Labor would take the politics out of issues like China. Put the national interests first. Have a calm, consistent approach. Work with allied nations to shape up the kind of region that we want.

SIMMONDS: But the problem with that approach Anika, is people remember Kevin Rudd saying he was going to be as tough on border security as the Coalition in 2007. And then he did the total opposite and hundreds of people died at sea. We had hundreds of thousands of people in detention centres. So the see the ALP saying they are going to be the same as the Coalition at election time and they do something different later.

EMERSON: Alright now, I’m going to ask you a question here of you guys. But first let me play some audio for you. (Prime Minister singing: Take me to the April sun in Cuba, wo-oh-oh, Take me to the April sun in Cuba, I can’t remember the words. Wo-oh-oh. {ukulele plays} Karl Stefanovic: Wow, bravo Prime Minister)

EMERSON: Bravo, Karl Stefanovic. Being very, very complimentary there I have to say.

SIMMONDS: Bravo indeed.

EMERSON:  Now the question for you and I'll start with you, Julian. Should politicians ever sing in public?

SIMMONDS: Well, I definitely shouldn't. I think of Scott's performance as a musician, he makes a great Prime Minister, is my view. I’ll leave it at that.

EMERSON: Alright then. And Anika Wells?

WELLS: Oh, you know, everyone needs a hobby I guess. I guess um, you know, I was thinking of dusting off my trusty recorder to give you a rendition of Give Me A Home Among the Gum Trees. But I think after the {shenanigans} this week in Federal politics, the people have suffered enough.

EMERSON: I think you’re starting to break up.

SIMMONDS: The recorder, the recorder! That’s what he should have played.

EMERSON: It should have been the recorder. Alright Anika Wells, Julian Simmonds. great to have you on the show again. We'll catch you again next week.

SIMMONDS: Thanks

WELLS: Have a good weekend everybody.

ENDS