Anika Wells MP on ABC Afternoon Briefing

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
ABC AFTERNOON BRIEFING
THURSDAY, 24 MARCH 2022

SUBJECTS: Refugee resettlement to New Zealand; China/Solomon Islands agreement; Should Australia boycott the G20; Flood recovery in Brisbane.

GREG JENNETT, HOST: We're joined from Brisbane by neighbouring MPs. From the LNP, Julian Simmonds and Labor's Anika Wells. Welcome to both of you. 

ANIKA WELLS, MEMBER FOR LILLEY: Good afternoon. 

JENNETT: Great to see you both out in the field. And maybe we should be expecting that, around this stage of the electoral cycle. Why don't we go to you first of all, Julian. There will be people who say, although long overdue, this refugee resettlement deal with New Zealand must mark something of a backdown or a concession by the Morrison Government. Your response?

JULIAN SIMMONDS, MEMBER FOR RYAN: Well, it's a welcome announcement, Because frankly, we spent a long time trying to clean up the failed border policies of the previous Labor Government, where tens of thousands of people came by boat illegally and hundreds died at sea. But now we've got the opportunity for these…for those who are in detention, to have a pathway to New Zealand. But not a backdown, because there's two important points to make. And that is, first of all, that the policy remains that this will not be available for those who want to come by boat in the future. Those will still…those people will still go into detention. So the message to people smugglers is, our policy has not changed. You cannot traffic in this horrendous trade. And secondly, those who do take the pathway to New Zealand, won't come back to Australia as citizens in the future. And that's again, our staunch policy that those who come by boat will never be settled in Australia.

JENNETT: And how would that work in practice Julian? According to your understanding anyway? Because there is a very fluid border for Kiwis to come to Australia, with all the rights that that carries with it. How do you put a firewall, a blockage up to anyone who might try to do that under these arrangements?

SIMMONDS: Well, at the end of the day, you need a government who's going to stand firm on this. And we have made it very clear that when it comes to applications for citizenship, that will be considered. That people who have come illegally to Australia by boat, to try and circumvent our strong border protection policies, and try and take the place of other legitimate refugees who are coming via, and that we generously take as Australians, from UN refugee camps, will not be considered for citizenship if they go via New Zealand. And this is an important point. Because while we are a generous nation and take many, many refugees, we cannot allow people smugglers to ply this awful trade that kills people, on the promise that they will someday get to settle in Australia.

JENNETT: All right. Anika, over to you. I'm certain that this is going to attract bipartisan support, because let's face it, Julia Gillard was up for such a deal many, many years ago now. So is this entirely welcomed by you?

WELLS: Well, that's right. This deal has been on the table for nine long years now, since the Prime Ministers were Julia Gillard and John Key. And you were right when you asked Julian is this a backdown, is this a concession. It is a backdown. It is a concession. It is a spectacular backflip from the Prime Minister at five minutes to midnight before an election. And the reason you can tell that is because in the press conference with the Home Affairs Minister you just crossed to, she spent 23 seconds on the particulars of the deal, and seven minutes bashing up Labor. Who hasn't had its hands on the levers of power in nine years. Same with Julian's response just then. I think Australians can tell when the Prime Minister is trying to scrape the barnacles before an election.

JENNETT: Alright. But the history of this Anika does actually cross across governments of all political stripes these last couple of decades. That much, you'd have to concede. Some of the caseload of refugees, fully processed refugees, that we're talking about here arrived, probably in the Rudd Government era, but certainly, of course, certainly Julia Gillard’s. Anika?

WELLS: Well, this is just another example of visa issues with the Morrison Government. Who you know, the Liberals have been in power for nine years now under Abbott, Turnbull and now Morrison. It’s the same government. It's the same people. And they've never come across a visa or refugee promise that they aren't prepared to break. They…the Nationals, they promised them an uncapped agricultural visa, with a pathway to permanency. They capped that at 1000, and they didn't give them permanency. They promised to implement Labor's TPV policy, and they broke their promise on that and charged 1000s of parents and grandparents to come to Australia. Can you take their word for it? I doubt it.

JENNETT: Julian, I might just take you to another national security question. In fact, it's a bit of breaking news. Our defence correspondent Andrew Green has alerted us to a draft framework agreement between China and Solomon Islands. And the characterisation put on this document is that it could put Solomons on the cusp of allowing some sort of Chinese base to be established in the Pacific. If correct. and there are a couple of caveats around this. What would that signal in your view?

SIMMONDS: Well look I don't want to speak to the specifics, because I haven't seen the document. But this is something that we are very conscious of. It's important that in our region, Australia is projecting the fact that we are solid friends. Not just financially, but we're there to train people, we’re there to assist. It’s why we responded so quickly to the Tongan situation. Because this is the reality of the geopolitics that we face. We have an aggressive authoritarian actor trying to come into our region, or he's in our region and is trying to exert further power into that region. And the most important thing that we can do is be a strong government that can stand up to this kind of authoritarian behaviour. That won't be bullied or threatened by trade sanctions or the rest of it. And that we can show our Pacific partners that there is no need to pick sides when it comes to this kind of situation. To have one, one world, one nation to come in and to protect Australia. We want to be there all the time.

JENNETT: Yeah. Anika, would this cause you great alarm when you consider the amount of support that Australia's been putting into Solomon Islands for many years now on the security front. To discover that there's a draft framework agreement that might be working the other way with Beijing?

WELLS: If there is alarm Greg, it is from the scaremongering of people like Julian and their bumper-sticker messaging on something as important as national security. Like you said, I haven't seen this verified yet. I want to read any caveats there are about this. But I would say Australia sits firmly within the Asia Pacific region. It isn't how Julian just suggested: “an authoritarian dictator coming to our region”. We sit firmly within the Asia Pacific region. And for that reason, we need to act measuredly and moderately and put national security above partisan politics. Which is what Labor has always done.

JENNETT: Go, go ahead Julian.

SIMMONDS: Anika has answered there with a bunch of hand wringing is exactly why Australians can't trust a future Albanese administration to stand up to bullies in our region. Which is what we need to do to retain our sovereignty and retain our independence. We are rock solid on this. And while Albanese can say that he's in lockstep with us, it is clear from the answers of his own MPs like Anika just now, there's a lot of hand wringing and there's a lot of nervousness about it. And a lot of backpedalling behind it.

WELLS: What hand wringing did I..? What hand wringing?

JENNETT: Well Anika, why don't I just put to you a question, you know, that's related. And that is that, under the terms of the US Alliance, there would be, and has been, an underlying assumption that this is Australia's patch. And it should be making sure that potential hostile enemies aren't encroaching. If, if this draft framework agreement were to be turned out, were to be verified, would that act against Australia's responsibilities under that alliance?

WELLS: It's very hard to speculate on something we haven't seen verified yet Greg. But my answer to that would be the same as the answer that we were going to talk about later about the G20. When Australia acts, we need to do it in consultation with our allies. We need to act as a united force. So my hope is that we will get further details about this. And then we will speak to our allies about what should happen. 

JENNETT: Yeah, that's understandable. We are waiting for further details supposed to emerge from whatever negotiations were happening there in Honiara. On the G20, Julian, back to you then. There is at least some contemplation by Australia that it is going to get awkward around G20 activities within Indonesia this year. Will Russian ministers show up when we get to the summit in October? Will the Australian Prime Minister show up? What do you think? If the war is still raging and Vladimir Putin decided to show up, should a next Coalition Prime Minister, presumably Scott Morrison, be there in October?

SIMMONDS: Well, look, I can only speak for my side of politics. And of course, if we're going to win the election, it'll be Scott Morrison as the Prime Minister. And he has the guts to be able to stand up to these…to both our friends and those who we want to call their behaviour up. And I, so I think we wouldn't cut off our nose to spite our face. Of course, we'd be at G20. The way that we're working with our allies to assist Ukraine has been a perfect example of how the Western world needs to work together on these issues, when combating these authoritarian or dictatorships. And I think we would continue to do that. But you want a Prime Minister going to the G20, who's willing to stand face-to-face to Putin and call him out for his behaviour. And in my mind, you've got a Prime Minister who's shown in Scott Morrison is willing to do that. And you've got Anthony Albanese, who's never held a national security portfolio in his life and said he doesn't have the ticker to turn back a boat, so if he doesn't have the ticker to turn back a boat he sure as heck can’t stand up to the Russians.

JENNETT: Well Anika, is Anthony Albanese one to shirtfront Vladimir Putin if he had that opportunity in Bali?

WELLS: Well, the prime minister that said that didn't have too good an ending. So I hope not. But I think this language is quite hysterical coming from Julian. I actually agree with the Foreign Affairs Minister Senator Marise Payne when she spoke to ABC this morning and said that the acts constituted by Russians upon Ukrainian people constitute war crimes, and they need to be called that. And it is very hard to see how members of the G20 could sit at a table with Vladimir Putin having had that happen, without calling out in the strongest possible condemnation, for that to occur. So I think she said that she was working with Indonesia, and the other people who are due to attend about what would happen. I think that's a good thing.

JENNETT: Right. Sounds like a bit to be negotiated there by the diplomats. Why don't we bring it back home now and check in locally around your own electorates - flood damaged in so many ways, only two to three weeks ago. Now, Julian, the recovery effort. Is everything back to normal through your eyes?

SIMMONDS: Well, no, I wouldn't say back to normal. I think the recovery is continuing well, and certainly the assistance that's been provided in the way that the community has rallied around each other. People who have flood-affected homes have often now had to move out because the flood water that did come into their homes had been contaminated. So they're waiting on insurance assessors. And it's going to be damn hard to get a tradie around Brisbane and northern New South Wales for the next little while.

JENNETT: And expensive too, with the materials I suppose?.

SIMMONDS: Well yeah, and you and you want the insurance companies to front up to their obligations. I was at a club this morning, at Mitchelton Football Club, looking at their recovery as well. So and we look, and we've even got some community members who I know I worked with this morning who had bought $2,000 worth of toys to send down to Lismore. So even though our community is flood affected, that they're thinking about those who are doing it really tough down in Lismore.

JENNETT: All right. And what about in your electorate Anika? Any complaints? The money's arriving, the support’s arriving where it should?

WELLS: Well, the pictures might be off the front pages, but my community knows that the recovery is going to be a 12-to-18 monthprospect, minimum here on the northside. We're here at Toombul shopping centre. You can see it actually flooded up to the first floor here. And today, small business owners and workers who work here have been told that the centre will not reopen for a minimum of six months. So Leanne Linard State MP and I, hosted an emergency pop-up town hall here in the park, to plug those people into federal, state and council services. Because this is such a medium-to-long-term prospect. And I can't wait to get to Parliament next week. You’d be surprised to hear that. But the Senate has tabled a bill about the cyclone reinsurance scheme. And I really want to use that as an opportunity to talk about what else we need to do by way of disaster mitigation, by way of sustainability, by way of recovery. For communities like mine here on the northside, we know this is going to keep coming in years to come. 

JENNETT: Yeah, there's so much to be said about the floods and everything else beside. All of it set against a microscopic amount of sitting time for the Parliament next week. But you are right Anika. You're coming back. You're looking forward to it. I'm going to presume that you are too Julian. It's going to be quite a few buildups and pressures around here next week, I imagine. A tight timeline, a deadline looming and a budget that kind of has to work for the Coalition. Now time is beating us once again. So we're going to thank both of you for joining us in crystal-clear vision and sound today. That's always a bonus. We appreciate it. And we'll see you both next week. Thank you.

SIMMONDS: Thank you.

WELLS: Thanks ABC. Take care, everybody.

ENDS